• Amministratore
  •  
    Qui puoi scrivere tutte le notizie avvenute
     

Cardellino Albino maschio con una femmina Pezzata

Qui si parla del grande mistero della genetica.

Moderatori: Ondulato, Mario.dg83, Antonio P., GiuseppeMicali, MARIO 51

Avatar utente
Giulia
Messaggi: 93
Iscritto il: sab ott 16, 2021 10:06 pm

Cardellino Albino maschio con una femmina Pezzata

Messaggio da Giulia »

Buongiorno a tutti. Mi hanno detto che accoppiando un Cardellino Albino maschio con una femmina Pezzata, Vengono fuori bei soggetti. Secondo voi è vero, qualcuno saprebbe dirmi qualcosa?


211 50 30

Avatar utente
Inghese
Messaggi: 82
Iscritto il: lun mag 24, 2021 10:23 pm

Re: Cardellino Albino maschio con una femmina Pezzata

Messaggio da Inghese »

Albinos are very delicate and also need the support of vitamins during the year to keep them in excellent condition, if I were you I would get two beautiful ancestral females and a lot of nannies to get the largest possible number of subjects, because the greater the number of carried carriers the greater the chances of seeing the birth of mutated in two years, and also by using 2 females the unborn children will be brothers only at 50%, so you can mate them with each other avoiding spending additional money for the purchase of subjects! !! Because being an autosomal mutation they will all be female and male carriers. I'd forget the dappled trail.
242

Avatar utente
Toto23
Messaggi: 129
Iscritto il: mar mag 11, 2021 10:08 pm

Re: Cardellino Albino maschio con una femmina Pezzata

Messaggio da Toto23 »

Sorry but the mutation that causes the patches would not alter any characteristics in future albino subjects, so I don't really see the reason not to put it with the spotted female.

These are not mutations that dilute or oxidize, but mutations that virtually eliminate color almost entirely.

So the reasoning of working on one mutation at a time, even if right in this case, does not matter.

The little ones born would be carriers of both mutations, so I have more chances of being able to range in future mating. You could put a double bearer male with a piebald-bearing female and turn him to other albino or carrier females.
And if in the future I come up with an albino goldfinch without a mask so much the better, I really think it will be a sight.
Although I must admit that it is one of the most beautiful things about the goldfinch. But we know the news always fascinate.
242 211 103 30 77

Avatar utente
Inghese
Messaggi: 82
Iscritto il: lun mag 24, 2021 10:23 pm

Re: Cardellino Albino maschio con una femmina Pezzata

Messaggio da Inghese »

I believe that mixing multiple mutations with each other is not beneficial, as it is well known that mutations do not only cause changes at the phenotype level but also affect other bird systems and you could end up with a strain of weakened goldfinches that you would not even be able to. to make him finish the moult, while if you fix the mutation starting from the ancestral you always have a better chance of obtaining a healthy and robust strain !!! Then the sizes in my opinion do not make any sense, in what are they beautiful? I would also eliminate the size of the canaries from shape and position ... .. and if I am not mistaken from this year the C.T.N. has rightly excluded the I.E.I. which have sizes. In addition, the goldfinch in my opinion is beautiful for the strong contrasts of colors it presents, already in any mutation it loses its charm, except only the agate .... And if we remove the mask and the wing strikethrough, what is so beautiful about that bird? Does it have the harmonies of a bullfinch or a barrel organ? Or the might of a greenback or a cruise?
Then if I am not mistaken the size is a "mutation" that acts on the melanins, so it would not affect the lipochromes at all but at the most it would lead you to obtain a subject free of melanins…. As happens in canaries or as you are trying on greenbacks…. But if that subject already exists and is called Albino, explain to me what can it be used for?
The only positive side once you have succeeded in bringing to zero the melanins with the piebald mutation is to obtain subjects without melanins, but with black eyes and therefore not albinos and more resistant, but if we use an albino as a starting point what robust subjects do we hope to achieve?
I would do 2 separate lines….
Obviously, do as you see fit for your breeding, the subjects are yours and you do what you want with them, I just wanted to express my point of view
242

Avatar utente
Toto23
Messaggi: 129
Iscritto il: mar mag 11, 2021 10:08 pm

Re: Cardellino Albino maschio con una femmina Pezzata

Messaggio da Toto23 »

Apart from that starting with a piebald subject and an ancestral subject is almost the same thing, a piebald subject has only some areas free of melanins and the other areas are like those of an ancestral, so the subjects would still be as robust as you say.

And if we remove the mask and the wing strikethrough, what is so beautiful about that bird? Does it have the harmonies of a bullfinch or a barrel organ? Or the might of a greenback or a cruise?
I really expected a little less superficiality, don't tell me that you really think that the only beautiful things about the goldfinch are the mask and the wing strikethrough? It's kind of bad to hear certain things from people who keep these amazing birds.

As for the sizes, it is true that they do not affect the lipochromes present in the wing bar but can eliminate the red of the mask.

Sorry but no one has ever said that "the goal" of creating a black-eyed white subject is to create more resistant or strong subjects, but simply as regards all the other mutations for an aesthetic fact.

In addition, the goldfinch in my opinion is beautiful for the strong contrasts of colors it presents, already in any mutation it loses its charm, except only the agate ....

Luckily this is just your opinion, I think it looks fabulous in any mutation or coloration, for this reason I believe that even in black and white it would still be an exceptional bird, and its charm is given by its elegant posture and attitudes and not only by colors. Precisely for this reason I breed this bird especially in mutation.
242 211 103 30 77

Avatar utente
Inghese
Messaggi: 82
Iscritto il: lun mag 24, 2021 10:23 pm

Re: Cardellino Albino maschio con una femmina Pezzata

Messaggio da Inghese »

Mine wanted to be an advice and not an imposition you are free to do what you want with your subjects !! My opinion on the goldfinch is as expressed above, and for me it remains beautiful only for the livery, if it had the coloring of a barrel organ I would not even look at it, for its physiognomy because I do not like it, except only the major I consider the others quite ugly. Obviously the judgment is mine and I take all the responsibilities, everyone raises what they like most, I'm used to saying what I think I'm not a hypocrite ... I can't say that a goldfinch is gorgeous for its physiognomy if I don't like it not at all!!!! Luckily each of us has his own taste ... otherwise we would all have the same birds ...
Mine just wanted to be an address for you, and I see that on some points even ghislain has agreed ... that he is certainly not the latest arrival ... then everyone is free to do what they deem right.
242

Avatar utente
Haemorhous Mexicanus
Messaggi: 132
Iscritto il: lun mag 24, 2021 9:25 pm

Re: Cardellino Albino maschio con una femmina Pezzata

Messaggio da Haemorhous Mexicanus »

In my opinion, everyone breeds what they like. Needless to say to those who are fond of goldfinches that this or that species are more beautiful or that that mutation impoverishes the subject ....
Greetings to all
212 213 64

Avatar utente
Inghese
Messaggi: 82
Iscritto il: lun mag 24, 2021 10:23 pm

Re: Cardellino Albino maschio con una femmina Pezzata

Messaggio da Inghese »

I did not mean not to make piebald or not to breed mutates, but simply not to bother with making 2 different lines, if in orniculture it is done in this way to select a reason there will be! Then for me one is free to do what he wants, either the results or the disappointments, if they come will be his only, I have done and said what I thought. "I'm not used to experimenting with these things, so I wonder what could jump out of this mating, would anyone be able to tell me something?" Then if it came to the speech on the physiognomy of the goldfinch and I did not agree on his way of seeing this species, the fault is not mine, just because the goldfinch is considered the King of the birds it does not necessarily mean that it is spectacular in the eyes of all. I like it, but not to make me lose my head and not being a hypocrite I don't say what the crowd does, but I always express my way of thinking!
Here we talk between friends and fans, it is obvious that we cannot agree on everything and sometimes we clash.
242

Avatar utente
Toto23
Messaggi: 129
Iscritto il: mar mag 11, 2021 10:08 pm

Re: Cardellino Albino maschio con una femmina Pezzata

Messaggio da Toto23 »

Sorry so much, but we always talk about breeding and selecting one mutation at a time.
But how did the various combinations of mutations, according to you, do them? making many, many of those crossings and couplings between mutations, and then only obtained the subjects changed over time the various characteristics of the standard for the various future generations.
I fully understand that this is not the case (so much because what would an overlap lead to? To a piebald albino who can't even be seen) but do you justify that then?

But if it really did lose its charm in mutation, the goldfinch would certainly not have all these mutations. And I assure you that the most passionate are looking for other new mutations.
242 211 103 30 77

Avatar utente
Inghese
Messaggi: 82
Iscritto il: lun mag 24, 2021 10:23 pm

Re: Cardellino Albino maschio con una femmina Pezzata

Messaggio da Inghese »

Sorry so much, but we always talk about breeding and selecting one mutation at a time.
But how did the various combinations of mutations, according to you, do them? making many, many of those crossings and couplings between mutations, and then only obtained the subjects changed over time the various characteristics of the standard for the various future generations.
I fully understand that this is not the case (so much because what would an overlap lead to? To a piebald albino who can't even be seen) but do you justify that then?

But if it really did lose its charm in mutation, the goldfinch would certainly not have all these mutations. And I assure you that the most passionate are looking for other new mutations.
242

Rispondi